Notes

Thursday, May 25 -

Welcome and Introduction to the Public Forum – Christian O´Flaherty

Report on RIR Policies – Germán Valdez

Presentation on the current status of the policies that are being discussed in other RIRs.

LAC-2006-02 - Resource Recovery– Nicolás Ruiz

Mr. Ruiz presented the policy proposal for recovering non-utilized Internet resources. This policy seeks to establish a mechanism that will allow recovering resources that have been allocated but that are not being actively utilized on the Internet. It does not establish explicitly which resources it refers to, but the main objective is to establish the recovery of IPv4 addresses. This policy has already been discussed on the mailing list and at several previous forums without having reached consensus; additionally, in the course of time it as undergone modifications.

The policy was approved by consensus.

LAC-2006-01 - WHOIS Privacy – Ronald Esquivel

This proposal concerns modifying the privacy policy for the information presented on whois. The aim of this proposal is to modify the current policy so that allocations can be registered and, depending on the provider's choice and the situation in each particular country, the information can be made public or not. Large providers can chose not to do so. If a provider operates in countries where it is mandatory to do it, the provider could do it only in that country.

After lengthy discussions, consensus was requested for supporting the policy proposal as it was presented, with no modifications.

There was no consensus; the policy will return to the mailing list for further discussion.

Registration Services Report, Ricardo Patara

The presentation made special emphasis on statistics, showing the growth in the number of Internet resource requests and allocations and also the fact that LACNIC has received new IPv4 and IPv6 blocks from IANA. The presentation also referred to other activities carried out by the group, such as contacting providers that are filtering new blocks allocated by LACNIC.

Engineering Report, Frederico Neves

The presentation consisted of a report on the activities that this area was involved in during 2005, highlighting activities such as adjusting and improving internal systems, implementing lame delegation control, working jointly with other RIRs, particularly on Joint Whois, Crips, and deactivating ip6.int, among others.

LAC-2006-09 Micro-Allocations to Critical Infrastructure, Ricardo Patara

It was observed that this does not represent a new proposal but instead a need to adjust the existing text. Christian stated that, in view of the discussions that took place on the mailing list, there would be no call for consensus. The problem that arose relates to the potential confusion that the policy's text might create, due to the use of the term "allocation" when in that case those who apply are largely End Users.

LAC-2006-05 IPv6 HD Ratio, Sebastián Bellagamba

The policy proposal for changing the HD Ratio for allocating additional IPv6 blocks to ISPs from 0.8 to 0.94 was presented.

Consensus was achieved.

LAC-2006-07 Size of IPv6 Assignments, Sebastián Bellagamba

The policy proposal for changing the text of the part of the current policy that refers to the size of assignments from ISPs to their clients was presented. For example, the assignment of a /48 is recommended when the existence of more than one subnet is anticipated. The proposal recommends assigning a /128 when there is only one device; a /64 when there is only one subnet; a /56 for small- and medium-size companies and end users in general; and a /48 in other cases that require larger blocks.

Jordi stated that he is against this policy as, for reasons of existing technology, networks with prefixes smaller than a /64 may present problems, some of these technologies may not work properly.

Nicolás Ruiz noted that the proposal is to make a recommendation to ISPs, not to impose an obligation.

Nurani Nimpuno spoke about the proposal in APNIC, where it is recommended that the ISP conduct an analysis of the clients' needs and that the minimum be a /64. However, the /56 size is used to measure utilization.

Richard Jimmerson observed that a similar presentation was made at ARIN, adding that it was approved.

Raimundo Beca said that if we are talking about the common good, the message that must be sent is that recommendations must be understood as such: good practices that should be followed, not for everybody simply to do as they please. He added that the language used for recommendations should be chosen carefully to avoid misunderstandings.

Frederico Neves stated that he believes that the recommendation will be welcome, and that the /64 "boundary" is respected. In case the user requires more addresses, renumbering would be simple.

Diego Valle Lisboa (Antel) said that he agrees with Jordi's observations, as IPv6 is a new technology that will allow applications of which we are not even aware at this moment. To limit this for smaller blocks would not be a good idea.

Jordi suggested also recommending that assignments to end users include reserves, so that if these users need more resources they can receive them without any problems, without the need of justifying the additional assignment.

Erick Iriarte observed that he agrees with the proposal and that he believes that the need actually exists, and for that reason it is being discussed.

After calling for consensus it was verified that no consensus was reached; an invitation was made to present proposals on the mailing list with the aim of fine-tuning these ideas.

LAC-2006-08 IPv6 for End Users, Jordi Palet

The IPv6 for End Users policy was presented. Mr. Palet stated that in fact he does not favor this type of policy, but that he is concerned that different proposals will be approved in other regions, adding that this would have a negative impact for all. His proposal is to allocate IPv6 blocks but only temporarily, until an efficient solution is found to the problem of IPv6 multihoming.

Christian observed that LACNIC fees are suspended for IPv6 blocks.

Raúl suggested that the subject of invoicing be removed from the policy, as within the region this matter is defined by the Public Forum and the Board of Directors.

Jordi made the clarification that the policy does not cover invoicing, that his only intention was to make a comparison with what is going on in other regions.

Gustavo (NIC MX) said that he would agree with the policy, but not with the /32 size of the allocation; that these are allocations to end users and that it would represent too many addresses for end users. This is proposed because of the filters, but it would be of interest that providers change these filters, as ISPs will want their clients to be able to access content.
He added that he is also against the temporary nature of the allocations, as companies would not be pleased with the notion that they might lose their addresses in the future.

Jordi said that he is not sure that the /48 will be approved worldwide, as he believes there is no common decision among the world's ISPs. He added that it is possible that some ISPs, somewhere in the world, will continue to filter /48.

Sebastián Bellagamba observed that attempting to recover blocks in the future will have a cost for the organizations and that this would not be feasible.

No consensus was reached regarding this new proposal as it is currently stated. It was decided that it will be further discussed on the mailing list, proposing the modifications that were mentioned during the session.

Election of a Representative to the ASO Address Council and a Moderator for the Public Forum – Oscar Messano

Mr. Messano observed that in both cases there is only one candidate.

The candidate for the position on the ASO Address Council for the LACNIC region is Sebastián Bellagamba, whose term expires in December 2006 and, if elected, would be renewed until December 2009. Voting was conducted and Sebastián Bellagamba was elected by majority of votes.

The candidate for Public Forum Moderator is Christian O´Flaherty, whose term expires in October 2006 and, if elected, would be renewed until October 28, 2008. Voting is conducted and the candidate is elected to the position by majority of votes.

Open Microphone Session

Erick presented some comments on the Whois policy. He stated that the there is a problem in the way it has been approached. Publishing information for suballocations is mandatory; perhaps the term "must" could be replaced by "may." This would generate more responsibility on the part of the individuals in charge of this task. By changing one term we would be changing the approach to the problem.

He mentioned that he would like to work on what an IP number is from the legal perspective, creating a small working group made up by people interested in making this a relevant issue.

He also mentioned the matter of consensus, how the definition of consensus should be established.

Christian observed that it would be convenient to review the policy procedure and add a clarification that would make the definition of consensus less subjective; he invited Erick to revise the entire process.

As to the other items, perhaps they would require the creation of a working group. We must take into account the countries where there are different laws and regulations on these issues. As moderator, he will extend an invitation on the policy mailing list for the creation of this working group.

S. Bellagamba observed that, when voted items did not achieve consensus, the number of votes was much lower than the number of persons present in the room. He proposed having two voting rounds to provide a second opportunity for gaining a more accurate perception. He believes that this is an idea that should be debated.

He also made some comments on certain parts of the policies where the wording is not clear, frequently due to translation problems. He proposed creating a group that would be in charge of editing policies so that they will be more clear.

Christian agreed with this and observed that this must originate from the group created by the policy list.

R. Beca stated that it would be good if those who abstain would actually pronounce themselves, as by abstaining they are practically voting negatively. The task of defining consensus is a very important and delicate one.

Jordi did not agree with the idea of having two voting rounds. In his opinion, a better solution would be implementing secret votes, although this is impracticable. When we search for consensus, consensus must be well defined, representing an overwhelming majority. We can never attempt to achieve unanimity, but consensus should be self-evident. He believes that waiting for one year is too long, that we might think of implementing an electronic voting system so that policy presentations can be more dynamic, even when there is no meeting.

Franciso Arias observed that the Royal Spanish Academy's website defines consensus as "agreement among all members of a group."

Christian added that the entire process should be surveyed. That we should not try to achieve unanimity but "overwhelming" majorities, although perhaps overwhelming is not the best term to use in this case.

R. Beca stated that consensus can also be built, that perhaps there could be a "preliminary" voting process to determine majorities.

Nicolás Ruiz agreed with shortening the policy decision-making process, one year is too long.

Jordi stated that he believes that the search for consensus should be based on providing more information and increasing participation.

Friday, May 26 -

Welcome and Agenda– Christian O´Flaherty

LAC-2006-06 IPv4 HD Ratio - Francisco Obispo

The moderator observed that this policy was not discussed on the mailing list, and therefore there will simply be a presentation on the subject.

The presentation consisted in an introduction to HD-Ratio as a method for evaluating the utilization and justification of additional allocations. It also showed research that proves the impact this policy would have on global consumption if it were to be approved: it would have a negative impact, mainly on the most recent RIRs.

Jordi Palet mentioned that this type of policy can be unfair in relation to the different regions, and requested that the proposal be abandoned.

Raúl Echeberría stated that LACNIC has received many commentaries that evidence concern in relation to the adoption of this policy.

Ray Plzak said that a similar proposal was presented in his region in the past, but that it did not receive the support of the community and therefore was abandoned.

Filiz observed that the RIPE proposal has been under discussion for over a year and that all comments and concerns are being considered. He added that the chair must make a decision on the matter.

LAC-2006-03 Size of Additional Allocations - Leonardo Vidal

Mr. Vidal presented a proposal for modifying the address utilization plan analysis period in case of requests for additional IPv4 addresses. He justified the proposal showing that the current 3-month period is too short and, because of this, ISPs have to go back to LACNIC more frequently. He requested that this period be 12 months, adding that this would be more in agreement with the terms utilized by ISPs for their business plans.

Raúl Echeberría observed that the NRO Executive Council is discussing the possibility of harmonizing policies related to this matter among all RIRs, and that there are preliminary studies that show that its impact on consumption would be practically non-existent.

After calling for consensus, the proposal was approved by unanimous vote.

LAC-2006-04 32 Bit ASN - Nurani Nimpuno

Ms. Numpuno made the presentation on behalf of Geoff Huston, who submitted the proposal to LACNIC's mailing list as well as to the mailing lists of the other RIRs.

The motivation behind this proposal relates to studies that show that current ASN space is running out and that it is necessary to begin allocating 32 bit ASNs, that this is something that has already been proposed in technical forums for a long time. In addition, it is expected that as of 2007 this resource will be allocated so that necessary tests can be conducted and equipment adjusted to support this technology.

Jordi Palet observed that this is in fact a serious problem, adding that luckily work is being carried out in order to solve it in a timely manner, for which he requested the support of the community.

May 22 - 26, 2006, City of Guatemala, Guatemala

LACNIC Public Forum